Posted by: Nick Norelli | May 8, 2008

My Take on Tongues

So a lot of people have been posting on speaking in tongues as of late.  Here’s a list:

Brian Fulthorp:

Peter Kirk:

David Ker:

Chris Tilling:

So this is what I believe about tongues: 

I do believe that speaking in tongues is the initial physical evidence that one has been baptized with/in the Holy Spirit.  This is not the only evidence that one is filled with the Spirit, and it is not even the most important evidence; the fruit of the Spirit is. 

Do I speak in tongues?  Yes, every day in fact.  But I strongly disagree with the practice of speaking in tongues that is common in my home church and churches like mine, i.e., everyone who speaks in tongues, speaking (or screaming) at the same time during the worship service.  It is my conviction that Paul was speaking against this very practice in 1Corinthians 12-14.  Those members of the congregation who do not speak in tongues are left unedified, and the ultimate goal is the edification of the body. 

Regardless of how good it makes us feel (and it can make us feel incredibly good), if we’re truly walking in love, then we’ll have the entire congregation in mind.  For this reason, I pray in English while in public, and tongues while in private.  If I do have a strong desire to speak in tongues in the context of a church service, then I am careful to keep my voice down to a minimum so as not to be disruptive.

So in conclusion, speaking in tongues is good, when done correctly. 

B”H

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Responses

[...] Here is Peter’s first blog about Should all Christians speak in tongues? Which then leads to a blog discussing being filled with the Spirit not emotionalism, then he notes Two Anglican priests’ thoughts on charismatic experience.  In these post he refers to Tim Chesterton’s testimonies about receiving the Holy Spirit and the issue of fear in letting certain spiritual gifts be expressed in his church.  Sam Norton also talks about Charismatic worship and speaking in tongues.  Finally David Ker posts on glossolalia an experience in Africa.  Hey the conversation is even picking up at Tubigen in Germany with Chris Tillings comments about a book called Post Charismatic? and a rebuke to Peter Kirk through a word of tongues and interpretation.  Even Nick has some thoughts!  [...]

By: Posts about tongues « sunestauromai: living the crucified life on May 8, 2008
at 7:31 pm

have to agree with you on this one. doesn’t it pretty clearly state that it shouldn’t be done out loud unless there is an interpretation offered? everyone praying at once doesn’t seem to offer that.

my understanding is if its public, it will only edify the body with an interpretation

if its private it builds up the man doing it…

just a thought.

By: Roger Mugs on May 8, 2008
at 8:48 pm

I’d say the main reason I don’t speak in tongues much anymore is because of how it was misused in churches I was raised in. I’m currently attending a Baptist church where there is nothing related to tongues and it is scoffed at; so I basically never speak out publicly. I should probably pray more often, and in tongues as well. In addition to studying Greek, my other goal for this year has been to reinvigorate my ability to pray. I don’t think I have ever really been taught how to, nor have I read any books on the topic (though I bought two for this purpose last winter).

By: Nathan Stitt on May 8, 2008
at 8:52 pm

If you disagree so strongly with the way that tongues is used/understood in your church, then why do you stay there??? Just curious what your thoughts/reasoning on this is…

By: Rhea on May 8, 2008
at 9:20 pm

Roger: Roger that! :)

Nathan: Maybe God has you there to teach the people that tongues are alive and well. :) Prayer is also something I struggle with. I have in my mind this idea of prayer that never really works out the way I imagine it in real life. Most of my prayers consist of short little conversations with God.

Rhea: In the end, it’s not a problem that’s big enough to cause me to leave. Is it a questionable practice? Absolutely, and I stated as much when I taught on 1Cor. 12-14 in Bible study. Is it heresy? No, and short of heresy, I couldn’t really see myself leaving, unless of course God told me to go.

By: Nick Norelli on May 8, 2008
at 9:29 pm

“So in conclusion, speaking in tongues is good, when done correctly”

Nice summary of Paul. :-P

By: Chuck Grantham on May 8, 2008
at 11:49 pm

Well said, Nick. I agree with you that everyone shouting out in tongues like this is not good, but also that it is not serious heresy.

By: Peter Kirk on May 9, 2008
at 4:35 am

Guys, I have a question related to this.

Cessationism seems to be fading fast. (I consider that a good thing.) My question: Why is it fading so fast? Is it because charismatic experiences are becoming so widespread, or is it that the ridiculous cessationist reading of 1 Corinthians 13 has finally fallen apart from its own weight?

What think ye?

By: John C. Poirier on May 9, 2008
at 7:40 am

Nate, maybe when you get stuck trying to learn a Greek paradigm, stop pray for a few min, even in tongues, and carry on, it might (usually does) help!

But I agree with Nick on not all praying out in tongues at the same time unless directed to do so by the pastor for unique situations such as congregational intercession - but in general I think it is okay like you said, if it is real quiet or under the breath so as to not distract others or the service.

John, hard to say, I didn’t know it was fading. In some circles folks are tightening the bolts on their cessationists positions (the SBC just the other year banned missionaries from the group if they spoke in tongues).

By: Brian on May 9, 2008
at 8:47 am

Brian,

What’s happening with the SBC is really evidence *for* the fading of cessationism, as the steps taken by the hardliners were in response to a poll in which 50% of Southern Baptist (!) pastors believed that there was such a thing as a prayer language. For traditional SBC’ers, that’s a two-step remove from cessationism as usually propounded, as it involves an admission that tongues exists, *and* that biblical tongues is not the ability to speak human languages, both of which were argued against with a lot of gusto.

My reason for thinking that the cessationist reading of 1 Corinthians 13 has become simply too incredible to be used anymore is that the anti-charismatic papers found on Southwestern Baptist Seminary’s website (the so-called “White papers” ;) fail to use that argument at all. Twenty years ago, the cessationist reading of 1 Corinthians 13 was something that Southern Baptists wore proudly, like a medal. Now it’s been hidden away in a drawer somewhere.

By: John C. Poirier on May 9, 2008
at 9:30 am

dude… i dont know what crowd you hang in… but where i’m at cessationism isnt going anywhere anytime soon…

then again i’m mostly around baptists and reformed types…

By: Roger Mugs on May 9, 2008
at 10:11 am

Peter: Amen.

John: I think it’s a combination of both, with emphasis on the former. Around the world I don’t think that the eisegetical reading of 1Corinthians 13 has ever really carried the weight that it has in the U.S. But this charismatic revival is a global movement that is touching (quite literally) millions of people who have never so much as even cracked a Bible. And thanks for that info about the SBC, I was not aware of that.

Brian: Good advice to Nathan! I have some questions about when the pastor tells the entire congregation to ‘pray in the Spirit’ as well, but I have much less problem with that practice than I do with what I described in the post.

Roger: You need to start hagning around some Charismatic Baptists and Reformed folk. They’re more fun anyway!

By: Nick Norelli on May 9, 2008
at 10:33 am

i would if i could. there are some complicated reasons for my inability.

By: Roger Mugs on May 9, 2008
at 10:55 am

Roger: I understand. I’d imagine that the same reason you stick with Blogger is the same reason you stay in your current circle; you’re being held captive. If they’re watching you right now, don’t do anything drastic. Just try and tell me where you are (when you can) and I’ll alert the authorities. :-P

By: Nick Norelli on May 9, 2008
at 10:58 am

Nick, I think as your friend I will help you when you are ready to do intervention for Roger. :-)

I speak in tongues, but I am sort of an introvert, which being pentecostal makes me wonder how that is possible. :-)

I have taught a great deal on this subject at my church, and one of the strong arguments that I use to get from our cessations friends, was that we should not base our understanding of scripture with our experience. Ok, if we were to remove all experience of the Pentecostal movement as we know it today, and just read what Paul wrote, it is hard to argue that we should not speak in tongues.

1 Cor. 14:2
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

When speaking in tongues (within the context that Paul is writing to the Corinthians) you are not speaking to men, but to God. Any person hearing you will not understand what you are saying. Why? Because you are uttering mysteries in the Spirit.

Why should we speak in tongues?
1 Cor. 14:4-5b
he one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues,…

Now only does Paul think that speaking in tongues is a good thing, he wants us all to speak in tongues.

Then we get Paul’s reasoning for how, why we should pray in tongues, and prophesies. I am not trying to gloss over this because I think the point is very clear. Tongues should be done in order, and not disrupt the service. At my church we will speak in tongues during our corrporate prayer, and people will speak in tongues during our worship service as well. But it never, gets out of hand, and if it does, we nicely brings things back to order, we don’t freak out or make a big thing about it.

The question I ask, that is never brought up is this. Paul give us a clear description of what should take place in church, or when believer are gathered together (i.e. modern day church service).

Is your church following the pattern outlined by Paul?
1 Cor. 14:26
What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.

And with that I will depart for the moment.

By: Robert on May 9, 2008
at 12:24 pm

Oh, and sorry for the few typeO’s. I was speaking in tongues as I was writing ;-)

By: Robert on May 9, 2008
at 12:28 pm

Robert: I agree. I don’t think that any honest reading of Paul can result in cessationism. One has to bring a lot of baggage to the text to conclude that.

What I see as Paul’s major point in 1Cor. 12-14 is that the gifts are good, and they are given for the building up of the body, but when they’re being used just to show off or appear spiritual, then they’re only building up the individual, and that’s not love. Love is selfless and seeks the good of all, not just yourself.

My major criticism has long been that Charismatics seem to commend the Corinthians practice and try to emulate it rather than seeing that Paul was rebuking them and giving instruction about how they were to operate in the gifts.

By: Nick Norelli on May 9, 2008
at 1:47 pm

Nick, I agree, and that is where us as Pentecostals have to have a balance in our understanding, and practice. Hopefully you and I can can do our small part and help dispel myths about Pentecostals being all experienced based believers.

By: Robert on May 9, 2008
at 3:54 pm

Robert: Amen brother, amen.

By: Nick Norelli on May 9, 2008
at 8:54 pm

Nick,

So if someone was interested in learning about tongues and all that’s directly and closely related from a pentecostal perspective, what would you recommend?

By: Troy C on May 9, 2008
at 9:58 pm

Troy: To be honest, I haven’t really read too many books on tongues. But you might want to check out the first two links from Brian Fulthorp in my post. They are both about books on tongues.

One book I would recommend however is Theological Roots of Pentecostalism by Donald W. Dayton. He explains how the baptism in the Holy Spirit (evidenced by tongues) is one of four main doctrines of Pentecostalism. And there’s a fair bit about tongues in the book.

By: Nick Norelli on May 9, 2008
at 10:45 pm

“I speak in tongues, but I am sort of an introvert, which being pentecostal makes me wonder how that is possible.” :) Funny to read that comment, because I was just wondering today where I could find a charismatic church that could make space for my introversion and where I wouldn’t be looked down on for being charismatically quiet! (I know, I know, I also wonder if it is possible, but it just seems like it should be. There are enough other seemingly impossible tensions that coexist in my faith…What’s one more?)

By: eclexia on May 10, 2008
at 12:34 am

eclexia: Generally, the people who get all worked up, are too worked up to notice who’s quiet. ;)

By: Nick Norelli on May 10, 2008
at 12:46 am

Troy - definitely John Sherill’s They Speak with Other Tongues is a good place to start.

By: Brian on May 10, 2008
at 8:53 am

Actually, Nick, I have attended various services where people were “worked up” and where my “silence” (I’m not only meaning verbal silence, but, perhaps, just standing still or, heaven forbid, sitting quietly) seemed to scream pretty loudly and be noticed.

I’ve heard pastors and worship leaders reprimand those of us who weren’t clapping and “getting into” the worship. Or because we look too serious and not happy enough, not demonstrating the joy of the Lord. For Pete’s sakes, when I am most enrapturedly happy, I can look so serious. It’s not because I ate so many prunes that morning or don’t know the joy of the Lord. It’s because that’s how I am, that’s how I feel things. I know that’s not exactly on topic with tongues, but my point is I like being quiet in church, but I like being quiet in a place that allows for “freedom of emotion” and emotional expression. Hence, I can really enjoy charismatic churches, but not how conspicuous and judged I feel when I’m enjoying myself and being “caught up” in worship in my own way.

The thing is, as a feeler, I really do “get into” what is going on. But, as an introvert, I do it quietly; I am moved TO silence and stillness (which is very different from being moved BY those things). So, I have this tension where I want to be in a church that makes space for emotions and for emotions to be touched, but I don’t like feeling judged or looking conspicuous, because how I express those emotions is quiet. That’s why I kind of tongue-in-cheek said I’d love to find a church that could make space for me to be charismatically quiet.

By: eclexia on May 12, 2008
at 11:24 am

eclexia: At my church we never put any pressure on anyone to express themselves in any particular fashion. We do encourage people to participate in worship, and not just be a spectator, but it is never said in a way that I would consider reprimanding anyone.

We are in California, and you are more than welcome to visit ;-)

By: Robert on May 12, 2008
at 1:03 pm

eclexia: Oh, I was joking. Perhaps I should have followed my comment with a :-P instead of a ;) — in any event, I’ve been in similar situations, where people have been accused of not wanting to praise and worship because they didn’t do it a certain way. It’s a shame that such things happen.

Robert: Amen. Praise and worship is not a spectator sport, it’s something to be participated in by all. But we always have to allow people the freedom to worship how they see fit (assuming that it is done decently and in order).

By: Nick Norelli on May 12, 2008
at 1:19 pm

Brian

Are those books pro-pentecostal? Thanks man.

By: Troy C on May 12, 2008
at 8:58 pm

Thanks, Robert and Nick for all the smiles. Besides being serious, I’m slow to catch on to joking :)

Anyway, reading your comments has helped me articulate my point better even to myself. I like charismatic churches, because they facilitate an environment where it is much easier for me to be fully engaged and participate. The irony is that the WAY I, as an introvert, am fully engaged, often makes it look like I’m being a spectator. Talking about it here has helped me sort out some of the awkwardness I’ve felt for myself.

And, Robert, California isn’t on the way to anywhere from Central Florida, but I’d love to stop in for a visit to your church if I ever find myself out there.

By: eclexia on May 12, 2008
at 11:32 pm

Sorry, I thought I had replied earlier.

I guess I am still working through a lot of issues, not really sure what is appropriate or not. What is the role of the church, or rather teachings within the community. Tongues… not really a big issue, just a frustration sometimes. I know things will work themselves out. Just. Crazy.

By: Nathan Stitt on May 12, 2008
at 11:53 pm

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