Posted by: Nick Norelli | May 1, 2008

Learning Languages

I’m gearing up to start learning Hebrew again.  It’s a beautiful language, and I really want to get the full use out of my Hebrew resources, especially the RHB (it’s too nice not to carry to Church, and they won’t always be preaching from the NT).  A few weeks back I contacted Abingdon Press and pitched an idea for a different kind of book review.  The idea is basically this:  I’ll review an introductory Hebrew grammar from the perspective of the self-teaching student in “real time.”  In other words, I’ll be relaying how valuable and helpful this resource is for the person at home wanting to learn Hebrew.  Well, they liked the idea and some time next week I should be receiving copies of A Grammar for Biblical Hebrew (Revised Edition) and Handbook to A Grammar for Biblical Hebrew.  If anyone has worked with either of these books, please leave a comment and let me know how useful you found them.

I’m also going to start devoting some time to learning Greek again.  Esteban Vázquez was trying to help me, but honestly, my head wasn’t in it.  I’m going to try and juggle some stuff around and really make time to study the language again.  My goal last May was to be reading the NT in Greek with a good comprehension by this May.  Well, May is here and I muddle through, recognizing a bunch of nouns and picking up a verb here and there, but ask me to parse something and I’ll shrink with fear.  So the time has come to learn these languages, and to learn them well.  I’d ask you to wish me luck, but I don’t believe in it.  So instead, I’ll just ask that all of you who know the languages give me help when I ask.  Thanks.

B”H

Posted in Miscellaneous

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Responses

I probably wouldn’t suggest this as a self learning grammar, but that is me.

But, I’ve been thinking you really should just send that RHB right on over red rover (to me that is!)

here’s my thing about free books, I just don’t box full of random books, I want certain specific books and I am a bit choosy about which books I get - that makes it hard since I don’t just want to say “send me any Jesus book, etc. This is my problem

By: brianfulthorp on May 1, 2008
at 6:42 pm

I just took my final for Hebrew 1 and my text book was Learning to Read Biblical Hebrew by Robert Ray Ellis. It promises to continue to be helpful this summer. I am excited.

For greek I took three semesters but the last two my professor ended up with too many non-teaching responsibilities, so I just bought a bunch of grammars and reading them in conjunction with class helped, and I had a roommate in greek so we did a lot of translating together.

By: Geoff on May 1, 2008
at 6:47 pm

I look forward to your review of Hebrew grammars. I eventually plan to learn Hebrew once I am settled a bit in Greek. Looking forward to your renewed efforts (and related posts).

By: Nathan Stitt on May 1, 2008
at 7:51 pm

Brian: Is there any you would suggest for self study? Wish I could help you with that RHB, but it’s just too nice to give up. I’m sure you’d love it though. ;)

Most review books I get are those I have requested. In the few cases where they have been sent without my asking, I’ll gladly take them, but they aren’t at the top of my list of books to review unless they interest me (as is the case with those I got from Zondervan).

Geoff: Sounds good. I hope you blog about it a little bit this summer. And it’s good to have a partner to work with, I think that makes learning easier. You might already know this, but when Jews attend yeshiva, they are all assigned a chavruta (study partner) to learn with. I think that’s a good way to go.

Nathan: I hope I don’t disappoint. I’d be lying if I didn’t say that your efforts have helped to jump start me, so thanks for doing what you’re doing!

By: Nick Norelli on May 1, 2008
at 8:41 pm

Nick,

you are brave, and so is Nathan in learning Hebrew/Greek on your own. I have made a very lazy attempt at learning Greek on my own, and have made some progress, but it’s hard not having anyone to dialog with, which is always a great part of the learning curve.

I wish you well my friend. You too Nathan ;-)

By: Robert on May 1, 2008
at 11:50 pm

Robert: Well, hopefully, I’ll be able to dialogue with some Jews really soon about the Hebrew. As I’ve mentioned before, I attend church in a city that has a very large Orthodox Jewish population. One of my best friends has been reaching out to them since he’s been saved (about 7 years) and he’s recently started pastoring his own church. He’s very confident that there will be some Jewish converts soon.

For Greek I can always call Esteban up and resume my over-the-phone lessons. That is assuming he hasn’t written me off as completely unteachable. ;)

By: Nick Norelli on May 2, 2008
at 3:10 am

Well I hope you do well: I find I can’t stay motivated when I’m trying to teach myself a language… I’ve been meaning to teach myself Hebrew for ages, and finally I’ve decided to actually take a course, next semester. I’ve been trying to keep Greek, French & German up to scratch at the same time - and I find it’s not easy. I’m going to take an intensive course in German in July, just to bump it up a level - so that hopefully it will require less work while I’m focusing on Hebrew.

If only they hadn’t got that crazy idea into their heads to build a tower to the heavens, so they could make a name for themselves…

By: Matthew on May 2, 2008
at 4:05 am

Matthew: Thanks! And the motivation thing is an issue for me as well. When I started with Greek last May I was going strong for the first 2 months, but then other things caught my interest and I slacked off. I’m just going to have to find a way to discipline myself this time.

Damn those Babelonians, damn them!

By: Nick Norelli on May 2, 2008
at 11:04 am

I would think Practico and Van Pelt’s Basics of Biblical Hebrew might lend itself a little better to independent learning than Seow or even Simons’ The First Hebrew Primer (Eks, !992). Seow is good, just probably a little more technical and in need of a guide (teacher) to get through it.

By: brianfulthorp on May 2, 2008
at 5:38 pm

Brian: Yeah, I know I’ll end up with that one sooner or later. Hopefully I won’t have too many problems with Seow.

By: Nick Norelli on May 2, 2008
at 7:22 pm

Here is another resource to consider.

By: brianfulthorp on May 2, 2008
at 10:35 pm

Brian: Thanks. Most of the Hebrew I know I picked up from John Parsons over the years. We’ve exchanged a number of emails, but I’ve never taken the plunge and bought his book. Maybe one day.

By: Nick Norelli on May 2, 2008
at 10:56 pm

Well, in my book it never hurts to have more than one grammar - people have different approaches to the biblical languages and referring to others can be helpful - however, that said, I do think once you start with a particular grammar you should stick with that one through the end. It’ll be too confusing referring to several different grammars at once in the initial learning phase.

By: brianfulthorp on May 3, 2008
at 12:32 am

[...] number of bloggers are documenting their Greek learning, particularly Nick and Nathan. Others have been placing extremely helpful pieces of info on their blogs that any Greek [...]

By: First “Official” Greek Round Up! « ἐν ἐφέσῳ: Thoughts and Meditations on May 12, 2008
at 8:48 pm

I don’t think Seow is a good grammar for learning on your own. I’d start with a work that has lots of support for self-learners. EKS publishes several useful series including Prayerbook Hebrew the Easy Way (especially if you get the CDs and flashcards, this is a self-teaching first semester class in Biblical Hebrew — it is aimed at the Hebrew of the prayer book which is essentially Biblical Hebrew). Moving beyond that, they also publish First Hebrew Primer. You may wish to consider buying the Logos version of this which has everything (tapes, answer, text) integrated; although I don’t find learning by computer useful.

Alternatively, you may wish to buy the Kregel set which also has a lot of support.

Good luck in your studies.

By: Iyov on May 13, 2008
at 12:28 am

Iyov: Thanks for the heads up and recommendations. Your links were working, but I have to approve initial comments; after that you’ll be able to comment without restriction (unless there are more than 3 links which does send a comment to spam).

I just started with Seow, and since I have to review it for the publisher, I’m pretty much stuck with it. But the good thing is that I’m assessing exactly how useful it is for the self-learner. If it’s no good then all I have to do is say so.

Question: does every Hebrew grammar use these ridiculous transliteration schemes?

By: Nick Norelli on May 13, 2008
at 12:51 am

There is a standard transliteration scheme that is widely used; this appears to be a standardized version of it. The problem is that the transliteration scheme gives little aid to the person who wishes to speak Hebrew as it is commonly spoken. There are a large number of different Hebrew accents and pronunciation standards, but the two major standards are the Modern Israeli Hebrew (”Sephardic” ) accent and the European Hebrew (”Ashkenazi” ) accent. For reasons that are two complex to explain here (but basically have to do with certain Masoretic writings on pronunciation standards), I use an Ashkenazic pronunciation for religious material and a Sephardic accent for non-religious Modern Hebrew. However, the Sephardic accent is simpler and more commonly used, so I would just try to use that.

As you will learn, Biblical Hebrew grammar is rather simple (compared with Koine Greek, for example) however, the verb system is still complex (not as complicated as Koine Greek) and there is a large vocabulary (not as large as Koine Greek) to master.

If I were you, I’d try not to use transliterations at all. I’d memorize the Hebrew alphabet and immediately switch to writing in that. Make sure you master cursive writing rather than block writing because no one writes by hand in Aramaic block script.

By: Iyov on May 14, 2008
at 12:42 am

Iyov: Yeah, that’s the transliteration scheme in the book. I’m not a fan of it though, as it seems wholly unecessary. I personally prefer a Sephardic pronunciation although 99% of the Jews I encounter use Ashkenazi (most of them being from Eastern Europe).

I personally don’t care about transliteration, but for some of the excercises I have to transliterate Hebrew to English characters. And thanks for the tip on mastering cursive. When I originally tried learning Hebrew I wasn’t concerned with cursive at all, although I guess it makes sense if I’m ever going to write in it. For the excercises in the book I’ve been writing in the block script and it’s a pain in the neck.

I appreciate the insight and tips.

By: Nick Norelli on May 14, 2008
at 2:53 am

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